BACKGROUND
Plato born in 428 BC, Socrates 41 at the time, Alcibiades, was in his late 20’s.
PP War ended in 404 BC.
Socrates was executed in 399 BC. (Anytus, the host of Meno, was one of the accusors of Socrates) At this point, Plato lost interest in politics when he saw how Socrates was treated. But now Meno is dead. Socrates is dead. Anytus has been punished. Now Plato is writing Meno using these people to discuss “virtue” in approx. 385 BC.
Do we LEARN VIRTUE OR are we BORN VIRTUOUS?
What is it and how is it attained? Are you born to be good, or are you taught?
Meno – Trying to define virtue , he says Meno must be able to manage public affairs … benefit friends, harm enemies…71e Women must be able to manage the household. preserve posessions, submit to their husband…children…and then under further questions, Meno becomes flummoxed as most do under the questioning of Socrates.
Socrates – I asked for virtue, and you give me a whole swarm of virtues.
John gave us the geometric shapes of squares and triangles (the pieces) but we could not know that they made a whole, a plate.
REMEMBERING VS LEARNING
The slave and geometry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodecahedron
“No one should enter who does not know geometry” over the doorway of the school. After Plato took it over things changed.
Gaining knowledge became more about the seeking. The seeker is better off that the ignorant. Now over the doors of the school was written “All who enter must speak truth”
Instead of giving the right answers, how about giving information/teaching within the boundaries of what your student currently understands.
In the progression of the story we find that Plato has restated Meno’s definition of virtue when he talks to Anytus.
Ken: They have an intuitive grasp of definitions, but seem only to talk in circles, swimming around in what they know but unable to have an “ah ha” moment of recollection. Could the slave really understand what he observed? Or was it really only through the guidance of the teacher? Learning is different than recollection and we realize this, in spite of what Socrates tells us has happened.
If virtue can be taught, how did the sons of virtuous men go astray? This made Anytus angry. He wasn’t really interested in getting to the truth.
KNOWLEDGE VS CORRECT OPINION
Plato was putting a stake in the ground that we must seek truth starting with basic fundamental terms and going to more complex subjects.
The road to Larissa – is knowledge of how to get there any better than correct opinion even if you have never been there?
The genre – The character of Socrates allows Plato to explore new ideas and test some thoughts yet from a distance. Not committed to a structured orthodoxy. This is a genre that is flexible enough for his ideas.
Trying to make us think for ourselves, rather than just collect the ideas of others — so what do we think virtue is?
Scott -Struck me how hard it is to pass on virtue. Good parentage certainly is not a given.
Ken – Not just a knowledge of virtue, but what about a capacity for virtue? Is everyone good at math? language? relationships?
virtue? Do we each have a virtue IQ?
Hmmm…
Meno