Medea

The last of our ancient tragedies.

Background

Grammar Exercise

Wrote a tabloid article about an event in Medea.

  1. Jennifer and Ken started the breaking news of the J-Med fracture.
    Today in Corinth, a shocking turn of events for star couple Jason and Medea (or J-Med as they’ve been known to their fans). Jason has reportedly abandoned his long-time companion to make another royal match—none other than Glouce, the daughter of Creon. In an exclusive interview with Katie Corinth of Royalty Tonight, Medea’s spokesperson and nanny SuperNanny McPhee said Medea is outraged. “She’s devoted her life to this man!” McPhee said. “She left her home to be with him and has born him two children, only to be cast aside for the next young princess to cross Jason’s path. Frankly, I fear for the bride and groom,” McPhee continued. “Medea hasn’t yet completed her anger management course. I don’t know how she’ll handle this.” It’s rumored that Medea and her children will be exiled from Corinth. More to come in tomorrow’s report.
  2. Tait and Angie followed up with interviews outside the courthouse with Jason and Medea.
  3. Nick and Jeff reported on the upcoming wedding.
  4. Wendy and Pat concluded with the obituaries.

Jeff followed up with some insights into Euripides and the techniques he used in the play. Played excerpt from…

WOMEN IN ANCIENT GREECE

Was he making sweeping statements about 5th century Greek women?

Line 220 – Medea’s tirade about the oppression and high sacrifice and low status of women. What does this suggest about how women were treated in ancient Greece?

What was the role of the nurse? Line 100 Her fear of what Medea was capable of doing.

MEDEA’S CHARACTER

Medea’s exchange with the King Creon – what did this reveal about her character? Persuasiveness. Able to take on powerful men. Convinces Creon to let her stay one more day. Later she meets Aegues and begins plotting, conniving, and persuading another rich powerful king to marry and give her more children. Did anyone see through her duplicity? Jason? Creon? Aegeus?

THE LAW OF CITIZENSHIP

His perspective:

Jason seems to defend his actions and the nobility of his scheme.
For full citizenship, both father and mother had to be citizens for the children to be Greek citizens with rights and privileges. Turns out it was a common for men to take a second wife in order to bear children with full rights to inherit the family name and fortune. The hope was that this second family would take care of the 1st wife and family as well. This law of citizenship was passed before this play was written, so we begin to see why Jason thought this was the right thing to do!

Her perspective:

She is twice exiled. The law doesn’t pertain to her. Her sons will be outcast and ridiculed. A trapped woman.

THE FURIES

Jason went along with the chopping up of Medea’s brother, went along with killing her father. Are the Furies pursing Jason and Medea for these evil deeds?

Euripides tragedies won 3rd (last) place that year, but hit on some of the hot button issues of the day. So much so that the women of that day were angry at their husbands for attending his plays because of his portrayal of women. Based on the popular stories of Jason and the Golden Fleece, but made up the part of Medea murdering her children.

The 1st and 2nd place winners that year, 431 B.C. (Wikipedia)

The Bacchae

Discussion Questions (Ken)

Dionysus and his Thyrus descend on Thebes
Dionysus and his Thyrus descend on Thebes
  1. Disguise: For almost the entire play, Dionysus is disguised as a priest of Dionysus. The audience is in on the trick, but the characters are not. Comment on the effectiveness of this device.
  2. Two Bacchae: Compare and contrast the Asiatic Bacchae with the Theban Bacchae.
  3. Dionysus vs. Yahweh: Compare and contrast the worship of Dionysus in The Bacchae with the worship of Yahweh in the Old Testament. What are the differences, if any, between what Dionysus wants from humans and what Yahweh wants? What character traits best describe them?
  4. Dionysus vs. Jesus: Compare and contrast Dionysus’ birth story with that of Jesus of Nazareth.
  5. Masks: How could the convention of masks come in handy at the end of this play?
  6. Poor Cadmus: Why is Cadmus punished so in this play (his family dies)?
  7. Raise Your Thyrsus: Do you believe in the gods?

Introduction

Ken complete in fawnskin and with thyrsus in hand opened the discussion with a dramatic reading of the first few pages of the book. 

Historical Setting

Just before the Trojan War in 1250 during the 3rd generation after the founding of Thebes

http://www.sikyon.com/Thebes/history_eg.html

Literary Devices

The audience is in on Dionysus’s identity but the characters are not. What effect does this have on the play?
Suspense?
Helps the audience from becoming confused?
Adds an element of humor

Compare Asiatic Bacchae with Theban Women

Asiatic Bachae (brought with Dionysus)

Willing worshippers?

Theban women

Driven mad. Not worshipping by their own choice. Possessed or in a frenzy

Yahweh vs. Dionysus

Yahweh

Wants recognition and status but also desires complete devotion
Is a jealous god
Desires his people to be set apart
Provides a plan
Is the one and only God

Dionysus 

Does he want Complete Devotion? 
Or just recognition of his status.
Does Dionysus want a set apart people
Seems to be after the outward show or “lip service”
Just wants to be recognized on par among the other gods

Dionysus Vs. Jesus

Jesus

Left the Father and was born on earth by a mortal
Virgin birth story is not believed
Godly identity is not believed
Forgives those who persecute him
Provides the way to eternal glory

Dionysus

Leaves the mortal and is taken to the “Father” and is born
Virgin birth story is not believed
Godly Identity is not believed
Sought vengenance on those who persecuted him
Provides escape from suffering on earth

Correllations

Bread and wine are symbols of blessing

Dramatic Complications

How would ancient greeks have staged an earthquake?
Some think the chorus were mimetic dancers miming out the story as it happened
Maybe it happened “offstage”
One theory is the more descriptive the dialogue the less likely the event was acted out
Here is a link with further info

Historical context

When Euripides wrote and performed these plays the Persian Empire and battle of Thermopoly would have been recent history. How could this have formed/influenced the message of the play?

God’s Today

If the greeks were still alive today would they create god’s for the internet? atomic bomb?…
Are they trying to explain the effects of alcohol by forming a wine god? 
What is the message about the power of Dionysus?
When you think about what happened to Pentheus what is the point?
Is it showing a force beyond you?

Scripture Parallel

Daniel interpreting Nebuchadnezzers Dream.
Nebuchadnezzer gloating in his powerful kingdom loses his sanity and fancies himself a cow. He is not restored until he recognizes God
Pentheous proud and haughty will not acknowledge Dionysus so he loses his sanity and his life.
Pentheus seems to be a zealot for the wrong cause narrow minded and legalistic not open to new ideas
is Euripedis showing the fault of this mindset?

Cadmus 

why is Cadmus punished so harshly?
He loses both his family and his heir
He was open minded willing and ready to worship Dionysus.
Is he responsible for the views and actions of his family?
Or is it that he came “to late to the party”

Do You Believe in the Greek Gods?

Are bits and pieces of greek gods or “composite gods” unconsciously infiltrating our beliefs today?

Ancient greek worship seems very transactional

Conclusion

Significant debate on 5th century views of the gods.
Is Euripedes demonstrating what anthopromorphised gods would be like?
To an ancient greek citizen asking “Do you believe in the gods?” would be like asking someone today “Do you believe in a tornado?”

Ending

We ended this weeks book club with a scripture reading from Ephesians 5:8.

Oresteia 2: Libation Bearers & Eumenides

Agamemnon's Family Tree
Agamemnon's Family Tree

Discussion questions (Nick)

  1. Family Dynamic: Orestes and Electra hate their mother and love their father despite his killing their sister. Was it loyalty to their father?
  2. Character Development: As opposed to The Iliad, do we root for and against certain characters?
  3. Gods: Are there changes in the hierarchy of the gods?
  4. Cultural Import: Considering the tensions between Athens and Sparta, what points could Aeschylus be making?
  5. Justice: What does this play say about justice, fairness, and logic?
  6. Verdict: If you were Athena with the deciding vote, what decision would you make?

Resources by The Teaching Company:

Overview of Orestes’ family tree

  • Tantalus: tried to trick the gods, but was caught. Tantalize: temptation without satisfaction, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalus
  • Son: Pelops: eaten, reconstructed, cheated in race, won bride, family curse
  • Sons: Atreus and Thyestes (twin sons): battled for the throne. Possessor of golden lamb could have throne, Or of someone could move the sun backwards. Both were king at different times.
  • Atreus serves up Thyestes’ children, but one survived
  • Thyestes’ Son: Aegisthus: abandoned as a child in the woods, found by a shepherd and raised in Atreus’ househould, affair with Clytemnestra, killed Atreus
  • Atreus’ Sons: Agamemnon (Married to Clytemnestra) and Menelaus
  • Agamemnon’s Children: Iphegenia, Electra, Orestes. Agamemnon’s daughter Iphegenia sacrificed to gain the gods’ favor back to have wind for his ships

Sacrificing and eating of people: 1) 2 Kings 6:24-30 and 2) Egyptians practiced some human sacrificing early on (but not of their own people)

Discussion

Family Dynamic: Orestes and Electra hate their mother and love their father despite his killing their sister. Was it loyalty to their father?

They had no place in their kingdom with her in power. (They’re disenfranchised when they are the rightful heirs.)

Did they really want justice?

Of course, if their father had been around, would they be safe with him? He killed his own child!

Clytemnestra had sent Orestes away; he was resentful of her treatment.

Ideas of the killing seem similar to those in Through Gates of Splendor (Elisabeth Elliott)

The Electra Complex: Falls in love with the father, hates her mother

Avenging Honor: Line 240 (except in Angie’s version) “You light to my eyes, loves in one! I have to call you father, it is fate. And I turn to you the love I gave my mother…

Honor Killing (typically in Muslim countries): done by a father or brother, No witnesses to the killing (family sent away when it happens) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_Killing

Character Development: As opposed to The Iliad, do we root for and against certain characters?

Some character development or at least an understanding of what is going on.

With a play, you have to imagine some of the details.

How did the Chorus help (or not help)? What about them?

The Chorus plays the part of the Furies: Singing in unison, like an opera. Dancing, using instruments, etc.

Did they wear masks? Yes, probably identical masks, but different plays may have had different masks (i.e., old man’s face).

Gods: Are there changes in the hierarchy of the gods?

They were relatively quiet, removed from the situation.

Communicating through dreams, seers, etc.

Fate and the Furies play a greater role.

Zeus appeared higher then Apollo or Athena: Line 625: Bend to the will of Zeus. Line 775: Appeal to Zeus

Zeus charged Orestes to avenge his father’s death.

Some consistency with Zeus’ character as portrayed in the Iliad.

Cultural Import: Considering the tensions between Athens and Sparta, what points could Aeschylus be making?

There was a real war that seems to have been going on, how much is then reflected in these plays?

Was Aeschylus making a political statement? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeschylus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Libation_Bearers#The_Libation_Bearers

People wanted to have their peers judge them.

How does this cycle of avenging end? A judgment is made—it’s time to accept it and move on.

Introduction of a voting process: leads to a stalemate that requires the gods to step in and decide.

Tensions spurred on by fear of the Athenians?

“The Just War” doctrine

Athens was started to flourish around 450 B.C.

Eleusinian Mysteries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleusinian_Mysteries (Ancient World Masons)

Aeschylus accused of divulging the mysteries, spared because of war service

This play helps us better understand the Bible through the context of what was happening in the world at that time. This is why God commanded that the Israelites wipe out the pagan cultures. He wasn’t bloodthirsty; it was His way of protecting His people.

Justice: What does this play say about justice, fairness, and logic?

Orestes had an internal struggle about killing his mother, before, during and after.

When speaking to his mother, his bitterness is reflected. “You bore me and threw me away…”

Orestes claims to have been sold into slavery, embarrassed to mention the price.

Killing of mothers, fathers, and children is frowned upon.

Orestes argues that it is worse to kill a man than a woman.

Evidence of juries in Egypt 4000 years ago; idea taken by the Greeks?

Code of Hammurabi: @1760 B.C.

Verdict: If you were Athena with the deciding vote, what decision would you make?

Juries of 500 people: speaks to the vast wealth of the Athenian economy that so many people could serve on a jury

There is a natural inclination to root for the children.

Is there a time for grace and forgiveness?

Helps us to appreciate a justice system and how it protects us.

Skit (inspired by The Orestrian Trilogy)

by Wendy and John Seefried

8/1/2008

John: Now that our pilgrimage is complete and the hand turned cherry pies are but memories of a feast with friends around a camp fire, my heart sinks at the thought of paying $4 per gallon of gas on the next pilgrimage to Assateague. The dollars in our pockets continue to drop in value but the cost of everything increases because of fuel prices. I long to return to sandy shores of Assateague, I know that the cost will be far greater than the last time we visited.

Wendy: Yes, there will be greater cost and risk again too. Remember how the wind howled and the siren voice of the Park Ranger rang out at 1AM announcing that a fast moving storm was approaching. We had traded the security of our condo for the nylon tent enclosure pitched near our Honda Odyssey to thwart the ever blustering wind. All night I lay awake ready shuttle the children to the car should the wind overpower our little wind strewn tent. But our tent did prevail.

John: As the blazing sun again shines its first rays across the far reaches of the Atlantic deep green and placid all is still in dawns first light. As blazing rays make their way higher, ever higher, into the morning sky the face of the water changes. The heat moves the air and the winds take their effect on the water. Indeed all that can be seen of the great sea is blown into a froth, one white capped wave after another all way to edge of the sky that bends low to kiss the now agitated sea.

In this same way the once calm United States of America economy has been blown to angry pieces by the ravages of an unprovoked war which has left many homes empty of their strongest young men.

Wendy: But surely the tyrant, Saddam, could not be allowed to molest his people and threaten the relative stability so near to the City of David.

John: Stability is now enjoyed by the people sworn to exterminate Israel, the Iranians. And we, Israel’s greatest strength all the globe over, have deposed the Iraqi foe that for so long occupied the war efforts of Iran. The Iraqi desert sand is stained red with the blood of Americans, Iraqis, and foreign combatants that have joined into what the enemy considers jihad and our nation considers liberation from tyranny for democracy without God at its foundation. It seems that the nation is feeling the weight of the war in unusual ways.

Wendy: Is it not better to engage the enemy across the sea instead of at our own doorstep? It is far better that our brave and skilled men gather themselves and fight in their units and battalions behind their iron warhorse rather than be cut down mercilessly and unaware as they flew the beautiful, but tear streaked skies on that fateful eleventh day of September?

John: At one point it seemed right to strike back at the terrorists, but our county’s targets are not at all clear now, and many are far from home.

Wendy: Hopefully, our next president can bring about a peaceful resolution to this complex situation.

Bard for a Day (inspired by The Iliad)

A Modern Iliad

by Wendy and John Seefried

This modern epic based on the Iliad tells the gripping story of three families on a camping trip and their quest for cherry pies.

The journey was begun and scarce a person knew the ills and travails that were yet to befall the families that were enroute for their fifth consecutive rite of summer, the pilgrimage to Assateague where they were to hand-turn cherry pies over an open fire. Three generations of Kinards, pulling together as one man, had already established their camp.

In summer the great bird, the blue footed booby, makes its nest on the rocky shore after the long rains of April. It shakes off the mist of the crashing ocean waves from its great curved wings and raises its long beak to the bright sunshine feeling the warmth and power of the sun. And then it lowers its great beak and solemnly assembles the twigs that will be the home and shelter against the summer winds along the northern coast.

So too the ox-eyed Angie seeks with tall majestic David, trainer of basketball players, to create a shelter from the Assateague winds. Their stoic fisherman Tait, had indeed accompanied them so they had no concern for taking great quantities of fish from the sea. But, Nick, their fleet footed basketball player, remains along the fading shadows of the farmstead, studying for exams and caring for the chickens. Brooding in the long dark shadows on the Parkton hills that this summer, the first in five, he would not enjoy the succulent, sweet as nectar, hand-turned cherry pies.

A glance down the Assateague campground road reveals young Benjamin scootering along, giving evidence to the fact that the Kinard men’s dinner fire burns low and the hour of last activities has begun as the once blazing sun now settles on the western horizon and blue skies give way to the purple and orange hues of sunset. What is that in his hand? See he brandishes a weapon, no, a tool and weapon both, made from steel that cannot rust. A tool and weapon in one; fashioned on Swiss Mountain peaks. This tool and weapon in one with its folding movements was long carried from thousands of miles away by Barnie, Father of Ken. There also on the path along the sand-swept dune was Ken, the great strategist; Ken the sage in council; Ken the god-like man of many devices. The goodly Ken, son of Barnie, had longed to see this day when his kind father might for the very first time camp with Benjamin and bestow on him this stainless gift carried from a distant shore.

The next day after the fires that prepared the breakfast meal had been extinguished… the full compliment of Seefrieds and Huso, save Nick, the fleet footed basketball player, embarked on a twin-hulled ship long and flat; it road the wind blown sea. Here the tide beneath the twin hulls raced in its headlong effort to return to see while wind pushed on pealing wave after wave… up from the depths… until each wave in its turn bade the wind release with white froth and foam. The mighty wind lashed and whipped at the surfaces of the deep to create such a tempest that the windswept crew sought fishing harbor leeward of the Route 50 bridge.

The crew sought flounder fish for their evening camp fire, but many times the hooks returned full of only vegetation that calls the depths its home. The twin hulled ship circled round again and again lest it be dashed against the towering columns of the bridge that held high the road known as Route 50. Then at last came bend of rod accompanied by shouts of acclamation that told all that Annette with skin of alabaster had hooked a monster deep and large. Hunter, the stout-hearted, ever with a caring eye turned to Annette surmised rightly that without help this beast would not retract his watery home willingly. So Hunter, the stout-hearted, raised the ships only harpoon high in his right hand and steadied his hold on the rolling ship with his left. His aim was sure and true. As the beast’s head breeched the surface of the deep grey water the point of the harpoon pierced the sharks rough scale-less skin just in front of the dorsal fin and plunged through with such force that point, barb and all ripped though the belly and protruded from between the pectoral fins beneath the beast. As the blood fanned-out from the wounds life left the sleek monster and it was lifted onto the long flat deck of the twin hulled ship. As the crew gazed on the great grey shark that lay on the deck it seemed to all that it embodied the evil and treachery of the times.

The sky donned a black cloak, drawing it slowly up from the north. The crew made for port. Three times would the waves crash along the flat deck as the twin hulls were pushed down into the raging sea, before the crew, wet, tired and hungry would again stand safely on the pier just beyond the clutches of the angry salt sea.

Along the roads from Towson lay the homestead, where the lovely, and fair-tressed Jennifer and the high-born, beautifully-haired Pat were maintaining the community and storehouses while the explorers and adventures continued on their seaside quest for hand turned, cherry pies. The Little Ones of the upland needed feeding, naps, and delightful storytelling of previous adventures that kept them all close in spirit. The fair-tressed Jennifer baked breads, journey cakes, and delicious delicacies and joyfully mentored the younger maidens in this essential art. The fair-tressed Jennifer always adroit in all manners of communication kept in close contact with the Son of Barnie, Ken, the great strategist; Ken the sage in council; Ken the god-like man of many devices, as he warmed her heart with news from the camp.

Throughout the following day, although the sun stood high in its perch a darkness still hung over the land of Towson, far from the distant shores of Assateague, and beyond the shadows on the Parkton hills where the lonely Nick, the fleet footed basketball player, still brooded over the cherry pies that his hand would not turn and his mouth would not taste.

The explorers, adventures, and homestead families joined the blessed family Bruns in mourning the loss of their beloved mother, dear Jackie, leader of many. She had valiantly fought the formidable enemy that causes the very cells of our own bodies to attack and destroy their very home, the shell of each man. But the assault on the body only served to strengthen the soul of this dear one, Jackie, leader of many. Courageously she led the Loch Raven High School troops until the last. She deeply knew the God of the land, the One True God, the Lord. She boldly proclaimed that his strength allowed her to continue the fight and overcome her adversary. Jackie, the leader of many, would allow no other gods of Good Thought, gods of Well Wishes, or obscure gods of Loving Hopes to capture the honor that was due to the One True God. The days of her mortality drew nigh and chains of this earth began to melt away. But one particular day she was discouraged to think that she was ‘giving up’ the fight. A messenger of the Lord, indeed an angel sent with a message, sped to her side and proclaimed, “You are not giving up, you are surrendering to God’s will.” This revelation allowed her to peacefully and readily surrender her earthly body, and prepare to receive the heavenly body that was shining, radiant, and splendidly prepared to praise the One True God, Creator of heaven and earth, for all eternity. The kindness of the One True God granted dear Jackie, leader of many, comfort from both of her children, the fair Mary and Emily, the teacher of pupils, Jeff, her son-in-law, and her dear husband Tim to surround her with love and song as her spirit peacefully slipped from its former shell and lifted gracefully above the earth. While the kingdom rejoices in her new repose at the feet of the Lord, on earth our hearts miss her and yearn to see her again.

Oresteia 1: Agamemnon

Discussion Questions (John)

  1. Who is Agamemnon’s prize?
  2. What role does Fate play?
  3. Which god is most engaged in this play?
  4. What was the same god’s main role in the Iliad?
  5. Where does the moral compass in this story get its indication of North?
  6. What character(s) do you as the audience most readily identify with?
  7. What is the literary technique that is drawing you (if not enrapturing you, inviting you to contemplate the conflict that is unfolding before you) into the story?
  8. In considering the Fate and the Furies vs. the gods over which Zeus is head (including Apollo) do you see any parallel to modern day discourse on Free Will vs. Pre-destination? When we gather at Pat’s house please share references from Agamemnon that illustrate the parallel, if any (or any other portions of Agamemnon that grabbed you deep in your soul and bid you ponder the deep complexities of life).
  9. Lastly, in considering your learning experience with the Iliad… what was a core message that Aeschylus was communicating to the culture? Assuming there was a core message and not just some shameless product placement advertisement for fishing nets and the newest rage – red silk carpets for, “the only greeting fit for a king”.

Characters

Agamemnon returns from war with Cassandra, prophetess, the one Apollo is against (no wonder he is cut down).

Cassandra: had Apollo’s gift of prophecy, but cursed, not understood by the chorus.

Apollo: on the side of Troy in the war, against Agamemnon, the god who was most prevalent in the story

Chorus: always questioning the characters, the one representing the audience, the ones learning who does what and why.

Clytemnestra: for 10 years she knew that her husband had sacrificed

Fate: the rules, predestination, the way it should be. Violating Fate is what gets the Furies

Perhaps Aeschylus is asking us to consider the newer gods in power, as opposed to Fate. And/or perhaps he is comparing these old methods of authority versus democracy.

Sacrifice of Iphigeneia.

Agamemnon offered an innocent to pay the price for someone guilty. She was to be the wife of Achilles.

Historicity

Is there any historical basis for this story, or these characters?

Bard’s Tale: Modern Day Iliad

John Seefried reads the modern day bard’s tale of the Seefrieds, Husos, Kinards, Brunses and Pat. Words fail to describe the experience of hearing such a heroic tale.

Playwrite: Modern Day Oresteia

But wait! There is more. John continues with a modern day play in the style of Aeschylus on the topic of the war in Iraq.

Video: The Context

Prof. Jeremy McInerney, Ancient Greek Civilization, Lecture 17

Background on the ancient greek tragedies, the catharsis (cleansing) = a way of dealing with the fallenness of man.

Was the theatre used for anything else during the year, besides the 3 days of these religious festivals?
http://www.greektheatre.gr

Possible source of the Sphinx riddle: the idea of old man on three legs (line 80 or so) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx

What’s better? Star Wars or The Lord of the Rings?

The Iliad 3:17-24

We enacted the final 8-minute puppet play, held discussion on the expected yet unexpected finale to this book, and watched a pertinent clip from The Teaching Company while we nibbled on some fruits, veggies, and ambrosia of Mt. Olympus. Afterward we took 10 minutes to write individual summaries of key facts and personal thoughts on The Iliad and concluded with a summary by Ken on why The Iliad and other Great Books are worth our efforts to understand them.

Expect the Unexpected

After the grand finale of “The Iliad in 8 Minutes or Less”, we discussed some unexpected happenings in these final books. Finally Achilles steps up, bringing more action and emotion into the plot.  Instead of a generic see-saw of mayhem, a long awaited trajectory begins to take shape in the story.

Greek View of Death

The Greek and Trojan warriors were not afraid to die.  After all, death was determined by the Fates.  What they feared most was a bad legacy, a dishonorable death, or to be left as carrion without a proper burial.
Funeral games:  What is that all about?
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/olympics/a/OlympicGames.htm

Achilles Lives!

No resolution.  Even thought the ending of the tale is known, the book doesn’t take us as far as we expected — the death of Achilles, the arrival of the Trojan horse, or the fall of Troy.  Only the rage of Achilles is resolved.

Greek Values

Many of the heroes seemed “flat”, indistinct; lacking moral characterizations that would make them individuals we could like or dislike, cheer for or rail against.  The descriptions were all about physical prowess, strength, ability to fight and/or stir up blood lust in their comrades.
So what did the Greeks value in a man? Lineage, efficacy in war, skillful rhetoric, physical beauty with an intolerance of physical weakness or flaws (for example, lame Hephaestus scorned by his mother, Hera)

Gods began to fight gods

How the gods are explained – through their behaviors, characteristics. They are man-made explanations of the mysteries of life. Their strengths – great powers, miracles, strong loyalties, wise, fair, willing to abide by the Fates (shadowy but potent figures who ultimately control the destiny of mortals).  Their weaknesses – selfish, vindictive, petty, childish, prone to strife when bored. Is there a connection between immortality and being bored?

Fates

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moirae

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/202442/Fate

Toolbox Time

Snack discussion

We watched a clip from The Teaching Company: Ancient Greek Civilization, Chapter 5 The Age of Heroes, from 18:00 to the end. Dr. Jeremy McInerney gave a greater understanding of the oral tradition of these great stories during these ancient times.  If a storyteller went into a town that had a great warrior, he could especially highlight the heroic deeds of this home town hero.  And if the town didn’t have the distinction of harboring a renowned Trojan soldier, the bard could create one! When Homer endeavored to set these fluid tales to parchment, it altered the fluidity of the work and the freedom and creativity of the storytellers yet thankfully preserved the tale for all mankind.

Summary

We each wrote a brief summary of key factual information, plot summary, characters, and observations, and also some personal thoughts or impressions.

So many things were built with The Iliad as a foundation.  A solid foundation that under girds the great philosophies,…the Roman culture…Christianity…its spread throughout the West…our heritage.  It relates us to our ancestors.  These are the great stories that help us to be who we are.  As we read through the great books we will see we are standing on the shoulders of giants.  Myths, values, what’s worth doing, worth living for.  Immortality, that yearning for significance, that even after we die we want people to be moved and shaped by what we’ve done. As we study and understand these ancient books, may we study and understand ourselves as well.

Toolbox: The Iliad

Books

  • Black Ships Before Troy retold by Rosemary Sutcliff (Angie)
    My favorite. Beautifully written. Listed for all ages, but this version is rather intense. I’d recommend age 12 and up.
  • The Iliad of Homer retold by Barbara Leonie Picard (Angie)
    This one is lovely too and not nearly as graphic. Great author. Copyright 1960.
  • The Children’s Homer retold by Padraic Colum (Angie)
    A homeschool favorite. A retelling combining The Iliad and The Odyssey. Listed for ages 10 and up. Younger as a read aloud.
  • The Iliad for Boys and Girls retold by A.J. Church (Angie)
    “Told from Homer in Simple Language”
  • The Odyssey for Boys and Girls retold by A.J. Church (Angie)
    Fine old prose. Copyright 1907. Listed for ages 8-10
  • Classical Kids: An Activity Guide to Life in Ancient Greece and Rome by Laurie Carlson
  • The Odyssey, DK Classics
    not particularly beautiful prose, informative,
  • The Odyssey, Barefoot Books,
    better prose, story from first person perspective
  • Gods and Goddesses of Olympus by Aliki
    Good background on the gods and how they came about. Similar to D’Aulaires Book of Greek Myths?
  • Adventures in Ancient Greece (Good Times Travel Agency) by Linda Bailey (Jeff)
    Good one on Greek history

Field Trips

  • The Walters Art Museum (Angie)
    I might be stating the obvious, but this is an amazing treasure trove of ancient civilizations and free!

Games

  • Achilles
    Action adventure where you are Achilles fighting the Trojans. [Gail]
  • The Iliad Game
    Doesn’t seem to work very well. [Gail]

Movies

  • Troy (2004)
    For adults, Orlando Bloom, Brad Pitt, Diane Kruger, Sean Bean. Not a great adaptation, but may be a fun way to visualize some of the story. [Ken]

Audio Book

  • Iliad Unabridged, Stanley Lombardo (2006)
    Several copies in BCPL. Good enough for listening. I like the Fagles translation better, but unlike the Fagles, this is unabridged. [Ken]

The Iliad 2:9-16

Gods vs. God

The origin of the Greek gods seems to be influenced by preceding ancient people groups, such as the Minoans.
MessageNet | Wikipedia | ThinkQuest

Comparison of Character Traits

Appease the gods vs. glorifying God

God made in man’s image vs. man made in God’s image
Capricious gods vs. unchanging God
Convincing/discussing vs. sovereignty
Human traits vs. pure traits
Appease the gods vs. people benefit when glorifying God (communion)
Discerning a god’s way vs. discerning God’s will

Reading in Historical Context

But how much of our contrasts are clouded by 20th century Christian terms and New Testament knowledge? Would the differences between the gods and God be all that different if Homer had been using our modern Christian language? Ken challenged us to wear their shoes, come into their world view, allow Homer to teach us a little bit—what can we learn without leaning on our modern thinking? Let’s take the opportunity to learn from these ancient friends. Don’t just “know” them, learn from them. Let’s discover the meat.

Foreshadowing

Interestingly, Homer spoils the endings—marching along in a story, the fates declare what is going to happen (spill the beans) and then the story meanders along to this foregone conclusion. Does Fate ever miss? Example: 16.523 Sarpedon’s fate was sealed long ago.
One possibility: This shows the inevitability of their lives.
Another thought: Is this foretelling the beginning of the literary device of foreshadowing?

The Pivot Point

The intractable Achilles pivots. 16.33-52 Patroclus challenges the heart of his friend, Achilles. Finally Achilles insists ” Let bygones be bygones now. Done is done. How on earth can a man rage on forever?” 16.69-70. Ken noted this to be pivotal: Achilles begins to soften his stand—not yet ready to join the fray, but willing to lend his gear!

Power Struggle

Jeff noted a parallel between the power struggles of Agamemnon and Achilles and Zeus vs. Poseidon. Kings and gods vying for power and supremacy.

The Iliad 1:1-8

Homer and Troy

Homer

Written sometime between 700 and 800 B.C., Trojan war to have taken place 13-11th Centuries BC.

Was Homer real? – Yes, most ancient Greeks believed he was but there is no evidence (he lived in the dark age of Greece…no writing/alphabet, big gap in history, lots of war)

Some people think Homer might have written 1 & 8; his students/followers the Homeroids might have filled in Bks 2-7

Ancient libraries – established by Ptolemy the II (Ptolemy I was trusted general of Alexander, given oversight of Egypt)

The librarians in Alexandria, Egypt published the authoritative volume of Homer’s works.

Troy

(photos brought by Pat Lazaro)

Was in Turkey (great place for a historical tour)
Over half of ancient Greece was in Turkey
Has a replica of the Trojan horse
Layers of history – you can see 9 different eras (Troy of the Iliad was 7th layer?)

RAGE – characteristic of a great book is that the beginning encapsulates the entire story

Online text versions:
Project Gutenberg (many online versions)

Levels of inquiry

Grammar – establish facts

Dialectic – make connections

Rhetoric – form opinions

Grammar Activity

Making puppets of characters (decorated on front, tags on back), we re-enacted the first 8 books in 8 minutes.

Poetic Stucture

Epic poem

In medias res – Greek poems begin in the midst of the action, literary device (starts in the middle of the story), story unfolds through flashback, was started in the 8th century B.C. in Iliad & Odyssey

Dactylic hexameter – dactyl: long short short; hexameter: 6 dactyls per line

Meter could help people remember the story – sing, memorize, hand down

Poet would use different epithets to fit the meter (“white-armed Hera”) – Achilles called “swift of foot” more than 25 times

Repetition – helps poet (he’s thinking of next section coming up), familiar for listener, slight variation helps listener not get bored

Poets/Bards

Poets/bards – were the historians of their time

Evolved over time? What was eventually written down might have been longer than original

Improvise, revise/improve with each telling

Current bards & epic oral poets – Yugoslavia (but they lose the ability to memorize thousands of lines as soon as they learn to read) (see Perry)

Poets honored soldiers by mentioning them

Warfare

Truces – for the gathering of bodies after battle, Diomedes & Glaucus talk before fighting (and then decide not to)

Not everyone revels in war – common soldier not as invested but this was his way of life, missed family after 10 years, dispassionate fighting, needed strong leaders (like Agamemnon and Odysseus) to stir them to fight

Better to die nobly than to live as a coward

Reading—Bk 1:545+

Reading—Bk 2:495+

Gods

Gods are capricious

Eris – goddess of strife/discord

Bkgd:
The wedding of Heleus and Thetis (parents of Achilles)—Eris is not invited so she retaliates by throwing a golden apple labeled “For the Fairest” into the wedding; Hera, Athena, & Aphrodite fight over it; Zeus tells Paris (a mere mortal) to decide; Paris proclaims Aphrodite the winner because she promises him Helen, the most beautiful woman in the world (wikipedia).

Zeus vs. God

False God: Zeus – power trip, talking about hypothetical abilities, capricious, self-serving

True God: God tells Job all the things he’s already done

Outside Resources:

audible.com – subscription to recorded books (pay a fee for buying 1-2 books per month)

Netflix (“Troy” is the Hollywood version of the Iliad)

iTunes University (free lectures – search for Homer; iTunes is a free download)

podcasts

The Teaching Company – lectures on CD and DVD (see separate email on this)

For next time we discuss books 9-16 but if time is short read:
Books 9, 10, 15, 16