Category: introduction

Republic by Plato

Leader: Wendy Seefried
Chapters 3-7
Plato
History
B. 427 B.C.
Age 23- end of Peloponnesian war
Age 28 – Socrates put to death
This led him to question society, human nature, etc.
Plato is seen as the first to define Philosophy

What questions was he trying to answer?
What is Justice in the society and the individuals?
Who would determine this perfect justice?
There are three parts to society: Guardians, Auxiliaries (Warriors), and Producers
Socrates did believe in the gods, but he felt some had misunderstandings of them.
Socrates may have been a transitional figure from the old Greek system to the one true God, because he thought truth and goodness did come from god.
Chapters 3-7 are mostly Socrates view of what a perfect Society would be.
Most of the Plato’s dialogues are people asking him questions and Socrates/Plato asking other questions. He was criticized for not giving his own views, but just asking questions, so these chapters are his response.

Whispers of the one true God:
Book 2
Socrates believes that God is truly good. (379 c)
Line 517 – Cave Analogy, much in this passage resembles the one true God.
Universal author of all things beautiful and right, parent of light and of the lord of light in this visible world, and the immediate source of reason and truth in the intellectual; and that this is the power upon which he who would act rationally either in public or private life must have his eye fixed.

The Unequal Line
Intelligible / Visible
Which part is bigger?

The Cave Analogy

What is the connection between the unequal line and the Cave Analogy?
The outside (Intelligible) is much bigger than the inside (Visible).

 

 

 

Aeneid Questions

As the Trojan Horse gorges blood thirsty Greeks into sleeping Troy, thankfully we are fated to journey along with Aeneas as he stumbles forth to follow his destiny. There is lots to ponder as we stow away on this voyage….

  • Take note of references to ealier great works we have read.  Isn’t it satisfying as we are able to fit small pieces of these literary puzzles into place?
  • What about the doomed love of Dido?  What do we know from Plato about love?  What do we learn about Aeneas?  Dido?  Why are the final chapters of the Trojan War told as a story within a story?
  • Who is leading this search for a homeland?  Is it Aeneas?  Considering the way Virgil connects human labors to the realm of the gods, is it the gods and fate determining the suffering and circumstances on this quest, or is it the characters and their choices?  Again, what is the interplay between the gods, fate, and man’s choice.
  • How has ancient literature shaped our thinking on heaven and hell?  Damnation?  Good works?  Earning salvation?  What does the Bible say about heaven and hell?  Are the Elysian Fields easier to grasp than the Bible’s descriptions of heaven?
  • Can you find the Roman Mandate?  Is this still valued in modern times?  Does it still work? Does it have a familiar ring?

Is it a derivative work? A commissioned cheap sequel to the real Homer.

He is a masterful writer of literary devices such as simile and metaphor. But these don’t seem to bog the story down as much as they do in the Iliad. He’s writing only to please Ceasar Agustus, not the many as in the case of Homer.

Roman Mandate: VI:852: “Your task, Roman, and do not forget it, will be to govern the peoples of the world in  your empire. These will be your arts—and to impose a settled pattern upon peace, to pardon the defeated and war down the proud.” According to Virgil, the ruler was to bring peace so virtue could prevail.

Meno: Intro

From John:

Meno is hands down my favorite Great Book so far. There are several different components. Here are some questions I want to delve into with the chums:

  1. Those of you that were part of the last discussion on Homer’s Iliad… remember the big ah ha when considering the historical context of the story? Please consider the apparent (the actual year is not known) timing of the writing…For what was Plato’s school famous? And how might Plato’s pupils or prospective pupils interact with the Meno story?
  2. What could be the purpose in Plato writing the story as a dialogue between men that likely were deceased instead of writing it as his own narrative on the topic?
  3. It has been speculated by commentators that there may have been something lost in the translation where satirical comments were translated as serious. Which portions of the story seem open to this possibility? Why?
  4. What is your take on the idea of remembering vs. reincarnation? Is Socrates’ logic sound on this point?
  5. Please identify historical examples of good men who always did good.
  6. How do you personally define “being good”?

And of course I am fascinated to know how the final conclusion resonated with each of you, but hesitate to ask specific questions here and ruin the end for those of you that have not yet completed the reading… I look forward to hearing your impressions of the conclusion.

Symposium: Intro

Aristotle and Plato are considered the bedrock of philosophy in the Western tradition. Whitehead said all of Western philosophy is a footnote to Plato.

In this first of our Plato discussions, we crash a drinking party where a bunch of celebrants (recognize any from our readings?) are waxing eloquent on love, of all things. (The Romantics among us are already gearing up for Valentine’s Day.) The diversion is a round-robin series of soliloquies in praise of the god of love. And all play along, except for Socrates who reverts to his old conversational ways (ever the interrogator) and only relays his “own” thoughts (if they can understood as his) by way of Diotima, a priestess. (Who is she, and why can’t he just play by the rules?)

So you have a bunch of speeches followed by a discussion. For us the reverse: a great discussion on the work followed by a series of speeches on love.

Your job is to follow their argument, comment on their insight in the discussion, and deliver your own thoughts on what love really is (or at least what it isn’t). In so doing we not only come to a greater understanding of one a truly foundational ingredient of humanity, but we may be living a more examined life—even one worth living.

Symposium: Summary

The Symposium (Greek drinking party) is a series of speeches in praise of Eros, the god of love. Celebrates tragedian Agathon’s first victorious production. Story told by Apollodorus, a former follower of Socrates.

Humans were originally round and could roll around, but were cut in half so we could only walk around. We spend our lives wanting to be whole again. Love is the drive to re-establish the broken nature of the original whole human being.]

Phaedrus (178-180)

  • No one will die for you except a lover, and a lover will do this even if she is a woman. [179b]
  • “Love is one of the most ancient of the gods, the most honored, and the most powerful in helping men gain virtue and blessedness (because lovers don’t want to be embarrassed in front of their beloved), whether they are alive or have passed away.” [180b]

Pausanias (180-185), lover of Agathon

We need to clearly define love. Really there are 2 goddesses:

  1. Common Aphrodite: responsible for the love felt by the vulgar, who are attached to women no less than to boys, to the body more than the soul, and to the least intelligent partners, since all they care about is completing the sexual act.
  2. Heavenly Aphrodite: purely male love (because they are stronger and more intelligent), preferring those who are old enough to show real physical and mental promise.

[Here we see the beginnings of gnosticism]

Eryximachus (185-189), the physician

Says Pausanias’s ideas are underdeveloped. Love is about fostering the good in a thing, and killing the bad.

  • Love is not simply attraction toward beauty, it’s broader. It directs everything that occurs, in humans and among the gods. 186b
  • Medicine is the science of the effects of Love on repletion and depletion of the body. 186d
  • Music is the science of the effects of Love on rhythm and harmony (resolving dissonance to consonance). 187c
  • Divination is the practice that produces loving affection between gods and men; it is simply the science of the effects of Love on justice and piety. 188d

Love is an absolute power, yet it is greater when directed toward the good.

Aristophanes (189-194)

  • In the beginning there was an round androgynous human, both sets of genitals, 8 limbs, could roll with limbs tucked. They made an attempt on the gods and Zeus cut them in half. This was our punishment.
  • The act of physical love is the attempt to reunite our two halves, to go back to our true selves. We seek the other half of ourselves, which is the desire of love, not wanting to be separate from each other. 191-192
  • Man split from the double sort favors a woman. Women split from women love women. Men split from men love men (these are the most manly).
  • If we are not careful, we will be cut in two again, having to hop on one foot. 193a
  • To flourish, each man must win the favor of his own young man so he can recover his original nature. 193c
  • Love brings us together, thus healing us and making us happy.

Agathon (194-198)

Criticizes others for only praising the god’s gifts, not the god himself. Love, of all gods, is the most beautiful and best.

  • Youngest of the gods (flees old age, moves fast, lives with young people) and stays young forever. 195b
  • Delicate (Homer says she walks on the heads of men (what is soft)) 195e
  • Fluid, supple shape, attracted to flowers, at war with ugliness
  • Character is Just: neither the cause nor victim of injustice. Love is not violent or demanding or pushy (cf. I Corinthians 13)
  • Moderate: power over passions
  • Brave: Not even Ares can stand up to love (from Sophocles)
  • Wisdom: anyone love touches becomes a poet 196e

Poetic tribute to love: “Love fills us with togetherness and drains all our divisiveness away. Love calls gatherings like these together. In feasts, in dances, and in ceremonies, he gives the lead…” ends in applause of the group.

Socrates (198-

Claims he can’t possibly top the eulogy of Agathon. The self-deprecating Socrates questions Agathon on his speech, hoping to expose the truth about love and let the words and phrasing take care of themselves.

  1. Is love “of” something, or “of” nothing? Does it have an object?
    Yes.
  2. Does love desire something it has, or something it doesn’t have?
    Something it lacks.
  3. If it wants what it already has, it really wants to have it in the future also.
  4. If love needs beauty, then it doesn’t have it. So how can you say that love is beautiful?
    I don’t know what I was saying.
  5. If good things are beautiful, then love will need those also?
    Yes.

and relates Diotima’s contribution:

  1. Love is always “of” something. It has an object.
  2. The object is something that love lacks.

Love turns out no longer to be a god, but a daemon (divine being in between being and non-being). It’s not itself beautiful or good, but “of” the beautiful and good. It’s the object of love that turns out to be beautiful or good. Socrates now turns to praise love’s object instead of love itself.

Diotima’s Ladder (210-211)

Climbing from one object of love to another, until we get to the form (or essence) of beauty, the Platonic “Beautiful” of GTB (the Good, the True, and the Beautiful).

Love is to pro-create in beauty. Love someone “for themself” or for some other reason. Love is creative recognition: seeing the other as what they are, recognizing the beauty of the other person. Love is calling forth the virtue of another. Love draws the world toward itself. Love is not just what happens to us, but something that has an end or goal. Love is not just a longing for the Beautiful, but brings it forth. Love is a virtue, not merely a passion.

Most of the people we love are not those we choose. But these are people whom we are required to and must learn to love. And our love is just a particular instance of the philosophical love, the essential love.

Lessons

By loving your friends you are helping them love their true selves.

Alcibiades: the symbol of self-love gone arye. He sees Socrates like Eros, a man of need and cunning.

The Iliad Intro

The curtain opens on the ancient world as cast our first gaze on the world of the Greeks and Trojans as heard through the imagination of Homer, our blind poet. But the curtain drips with the blood of battle—9 years of heavy hoplite warfare and no end in sight (at least not in the first 8 books).

True to the classical method of inquiry, we will consider the work on 3 levels.

Grammar

Who, what, when, where, why? We look at the characters and the plot. Be prepared to identify the key characters in these three groups: Argives (Greeks), Trojans, and gods.

Logic/Dialectic

Look at how the poem is constructed: meter, form, etc. How was it originally performed? How does it stand up as a work of literature? Identify the main theme and any sub-themes. In general, what do we learn about ancient Greek society from the story?

Rhetoric

Here is your chance to form and defend an opinion about the work.

  • Analyze the conflict that started the war. Describe the forces at work as the conflict develops.
  • What effect does rage/wrath have on good judgment?
  • What do burial rites teach us about the values of the Greeks and Trojans?
  • What do they believe about honor?
  • Compare and contrast the personalities of Achilles and Agamemnon.
  • Compare and contrast the leadership of Achilles and Hector.
  • What is the role of fate in The Iliad? Are there differences in how humans and gods relate to fate?
  • Homer goes into detail about the bloody deaths of warriors. What affect does this have on the story? Is this a good literary technique?
  • What constitutes the “good life” according to this work? What constitutes a “hero” to Homer? Argue for or against the author’s view.