Tag: bacchae

Toolbox: Oresteia, The Bacchae, Medea, History of the Peloponnesian War

[the following from Greek Tragedy by Elizabeth Vandiver]

The Oresteia

Others:

  • musical The Gospel at Colonus (1983), the story of Oedipus at Colonus with a service in an African-American Pentecostal church
  • Rita Dove’s story of Oedipus the King in an antebellum southern plantation The Darker Face of the Earth.
  • Star Trek: Voyager. Shipwreck of D’Lana Torres on a pre-industrial world, built around Greek tragedy.

The Bacchae

Discussion Questions (Ken)

Dionysus and his Thyrus descend on Thebes
Dionysus and his Thyrus descend on Thebes
  1. Disguise: For almost the entire play, Dionysus is disguised as a priest of Dionysus. The audience is in on the trick, but the characters are not. Comment on the effectiveness of this device.
  2. Two Bacchae: Compare and contrast the Asiatic Bacchae with the Theban Bacchae.
  3. Dionysus vs. Yahweh: Compare and contrast the worship of Dionysus in The Bacchae with the worship of Yahweh in the Old Testament. What are the differences, if any, between what Dionysus wants from humans and what Yahweh wants? What character traits best describe them?
  4. Dionysus vs. Jesus: Compare and contrast Dionysus’ birth story with that of Jesus of Nazareth.
  5. Masks: How could the convention of masks come in handy at the end of this play?
  6. Poor Cadmus: Why is Cadmus punished so in this play (his family dies)?
  7. Raise Your Thyrsus: Do you believe in the gods?

Introduction

Ken complete in fawnskin and with thyrsus in hand opened the discussion with a dramatic reading of the first few pages of the book. 

Historical Setting

Just before the Trojan War in 1250 during the 3rd generation after the founding of Thebes

http://www.sikyon.com/Thebes/history_eg.html

Literary Devices

The audience is in on Dionysus’s identity but the characters are not. What effect does this have on the play?
Suspense?
Helps the audience from becoming confused?
Adds an element of humor

Compare Asiatic Bacchae with Theban Women

Asiatic Bachae (brought with Dionysus)

Willing worshippers?

Theban women

Driven mad. Not worshipping by their own choice. Possessed or in a frenzy

Yahweh vs. Dionysus

Yahweh

Wants recognition and status but also desires complete devotion
Is a jealous god
Desires his people to be set apart
Provides a plan
Is the one and only God

Dionysus 

Does he want Complete Devotion? 
Or just recognition of his status.
Does Dionysus want a set apart people
Seems to be after the outward show or “lip service”
Just wants to be recognized on par among the other gods

Dionysus Vs. Jesus

Jesus

Left the Father and was born on earth by a mortal
Virgin birth story is not believed
Godly identity is not believed
Forgives those who persecute him
Provides the way to eternal glory

Dionysus

Leaves the mortal and is taken to the “Father” and is born
Virgin birth story is not believed
Godly Identity is not believed
Sought vengenance on those who persecuted him
Provides escape from suffering on earth

Correllations

Bread and wine are symbols of blessing

Dramatic Complications

How would ancient greeks have staged an earthquake?
Some think the chorus were mimetic dancers miming out the story as it happened
Maybe it happened “offstage”
One theory is the more descriptive the dialogue the less likely the event was acted out
Here is a link with further info

Historical context

When Euripides wrote and performed these plays the Persian Empire and battle of Thermopoly would have been recent history. How could this have formed/influenced the message of the play?

God’s Today

If the greeks were still alive today would they create god’s for the internet? atomic bomb?…
Are they trying to explain the effects of alcohol by forming a wine god? 
What is the message about the power of Dionysus?
When you think about what happened to Pentheus what is the point?
Is it showing a force beyond you?

Scripture Parallel

Daniel interpreting Nebuchadnezzers Dream.
Nebuchadnezzer gloating in his powerful kingdom loses his sanity and fancies himself a cow. He is not restored until he recognizes God
Pentheous proud and haughty will not acknowledge Dionysus so he loses his sanity and his life.
Pentheus seems to be a zealot for the wrong cause narrow minded and legalistic not open to new ideas
is Euripedis showing the fault of this mindset?

Cadmus 

why is Cadmus punished so harshly?
He loses both his family and his heir
He was open minded willing and ready to worship Dionysus.
Is he responsible for the views and actions of his family?
Or is it that he came “to late to the party”

Do You Believe in the Greek Gods?

Are bits and pieces of greek gods or “composite gods” unconsciously infiltrating our beliefs today?

Ancient greek worship seems very transactional

Conclusion

Significant debate on 5th century views of the gods.
Is Euripedes demonstrating what anthopromorphised gods would be like?
To an ancient greek citizen asking “Do you believe in the gods?” would be like asking someone today “Do you believe in a tornado?”

Ending

We ended this weeks book club with a scripture reading from Ephesians 5:8.